Ice Ages – Uniformist Fabrication?

I admit to not thinking too deeply on the origin of ‘ice-ages’ but Tim Cullen’s (Malaga Bay) various posts on the ideas of Henry Hoyle Howorth published during the late 19tn century has caused a heads-up. What I have noticed from my geological wanderings is the loose association of ‘ice-ages’ with mass species extinctions and an even looser association with kimberlite eruptions.

Decades ago when I found myself yet again faced with large amounts of time due to the cyclical nature of the mineral exploration industry, fresh from the discovery that Kimberley region aboriginal peoples had seriously anachronistic traditions involving geological phenomena, I started to wonder if the geological record was significantly stretched so that events conventionally separated by millions of years, were actually not and that may be the events were directly linked. I started to wonder about the expansion of geological time from Velikovsky’s publications where he thought Egyptian history was fabricated by some 800 years. My own dilemma involved coping aboriginal traditions of geological events dated to 1,150 million years in the past.

I mentioned this topic to the then senior research geologist of the mining company I used to work for, WMC Limited, who replied that they were not allowed to think like that. That response caused one of those raised eyebrow moments, and I decided it wiser to do more research than becoming a geological martyr before the chosen time. The reason for the cognitive dissonance at the time was my construction of a 3-D graph in a spreadsheet showing a possible cause and effect relationship between the K-T event, kimberlite eruption and plateau basalt outpourings and the proposed Alvarez impact structure in the Americas. Conventionally these events are described as being millions of years apart and hence hardly of a cause and effect relationship. I had, because of my field work in the Kimberley, stumbled over geological neo-catastrophism and also discovered that it remained a serious No-No in the extant geological narrative.

The argument over chronology lies in two related facts, the belief in Creation per se, and the rejection of any catastrophic geological events.

The strange thing about Creation is that even the non-believers, the atheists, unconsciously accept it as the astronomical Big Bang event some 13.8 billions of years ago.  And it seems most moderate believers in Christianity are intellectually quite comfortable with their faith’s narrative of creation being synonymous with the astronomical Big Bang event.  Except, as I have often pointed out, the intellectual ploy of removing biblical creation from its Ushherian date, 4004 BC, to its present date, 13.8 billions years BP, involves the repositioning of a fiction not geological fact. Charles Lyell’s removing of biblical creation was, in his terms, logical for it enabled him to have his cake and to also be able to eat it. But I don’t think that branding geological uniformitarians as liberal Creationists would go down too well, despite the fact that is exactly what they are.

The alternative to biblical creation is the idea that the universe always existed, and then geological chronology could be collated as a series of events ranked in order of occurrence, not necessarily ranked in some rigid numerical chronology that the creationist model demands. In fact our whole understanding of the cosmos is based on the apriorism of creation and from a scientific stance, this is the very problem.

But given that about 4 billion souls believe in divine creation, more or less the Western World and the Middle East, any science would need to be compatible that cultural foundation and be creation-compatible. I suspect I would have more success in turning a stampeding herd of wildebeest than to convince those billions of souls that their belief might be an issue.

So what about ice ages? The problem is the existence of massive deposits of unconsolidated fresh sediments and erratics, (very large boulders and lumps of fresh rock), hundreds of kilometres from their places of origin. The catastrophic explanation involves enormous tsunami-like waves sloshing over land masses depositing their sedimentary loads in some violent geological catastrophe.

The conventional uniformist explanation involves the appearance of an Ice Age in which slowly moving glaciers move and deposit the sediments over the course of hundreds of thousands of years or even longer time spans.

Which explanation is the correct one, then?

I suspect the uniformist explanation is the politically correct one.

More on this in future musings.

About Louis Hissink

Retired diamond exploration geologist. I spent my professional life looking for mineral deposits, found some, and also located a number of kimberlites in NSW and Western Australia. Exploration geology is the closest one can get to practicing the scientific method, mineral exploration always being concerned with finding anomalous geophysical or geochemical data, framing a model and explanation for the anomaly and then testing it with drilling or excavation. All scientific theories are ultimately false since they invariably involved explaining something with incomplete extant knowledge. Since no one is omniscient or knows everything, so too scientific theories which are solely limited to existing knowledge. Because the future always yields new data, scientific theories must change to be compatible with the new data. Thus a true scientist is never in love with any particular theory, always knowing that when the facts change, so too must he/she change their minds.
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8 Responses to Ice Ages – Uniformist Fabrication?

  1. Ian MacCulloch says:

    What if there are two types of ice – the moving glacier of the type you mentioned and the stationary one as borne out by the perfect stratigraphic ice core record in the deep and therefore older ice age holes in both Greenland and Antarctica. While you are at it you may also consider the expanding and contracting earth theory as the explanation of sea level changes not being reflected in the ice core record.


  2. johnm33 says:

    I guess this is as good a place as any for this, you’re thinking about similar things to me for very different reasons. I was kept away from reading Velikovsky by his pariah status until about 5 years ago, by the time I read it I was pretty much on the same page, except even though I thought on the balance of probabilities his view of the catastrophe was more or less correct i still thought it was hair brained.
    I’ve been looking at images of permafrost, and can’t accept the mainstream explanation any more, even one of the images on the front page of the IPA website has an image that looks for all the world to be a flash frozen wave, . If you dig a little deeper the make up of this type of permafrost is similar to seawater, just the salt removed, even containing a type of dormant bacteria previously only found beneath antarctic ice shelves. So perhaps Velikovsky and the ancient eye witnesses were right the earth stood still, the seas rose from their domain and headed east and poleward. Then of course you have the translation of kinetic energy to account for, never mind how hot water would get brought to a sudden halt from 1000mph, what about all the minerals of the crust, way down to the mantle? Looking at specific heats it seems most metals heavier than copper would become disproportionally hot, would they break upwards forming ore bodies, and since it was also an electrical event would these ore bodies be further heated and accelerated by electron flow? Next all those rocks permeated by surface water with insufficient mass to keep the water below 100C may begin to blast showers of rock skywards, 100% humidity would be reached in many locations wet bulb temps? Set free the water itself wouldn’t heat up but running over hot rocks massive amounts of vapour forms, so much the atmosphere expands, and vapour being lighter than air it rises high. So we have the oceans heading NE at 1000mph scouring the land, maybe that explains the 20km depth of sediment in the siberian arctic skip to 6:30. If all this kinetic energy gets expressed and vented into the atmosphere once the earth moves again there’s going to be some mighty cooling taking place. Enough.


    • Edward says:

      Interesting video John.

      I am curious to find out more about the anaerobic bacteria. Clearly if they become active at a certain temperature threshold then anything under the permafrost and shallow water shelves may be possible. I ran across some Yamal pits that did not exhibit the same circular shape of B1 but where irregular with precisely the same ‘ejected’ material structure around there edges. Always looking for alternate explanations… good post again.


      • johnm33 says:

        Edward The Yamal crater that got everyones attention had a side shaft, an arched cave that joined it long ago. My present thinking is that some event possibly carrington cme created the conditions for the bacterial activity to begin. Where a litle water connected with a little salt and the bacteria began to digest any nutrients released from the melt, then adapted to it’s surroundings.
        According to Irish legends some of their ancestors sailed from the area of the caspian sea arriving in Ireland from the north. I’m wondering how much of the ‘land’ between the Arctic ocean and the Caspian is frozen ‘muck’ and sediment, and haven’t found any maps which show bedrock depth beneath permafrost either there or on the American side. There used to be arctic beluga and seals in the caspian, still are some beluga in the Black sea [and seals in lake baikal].


    • I don’t think the Earth stopped spinning but for a short period careened to a new but temporary axis of spin that caused the illusion of the sun, or is it a sun, remaining motionless in the heavens, During this event the earth continued spinning since additionally, my guess, is that if the Earth’s rotation is powered by magnetic field aligned electric currents, holopolar motor etc, then stopping rotation effectively means stopping the current locally.

      The fact human observers saw this means that the surface conditions for life, the plasma DL in which we exist (earth-ionosphere DL), requires a continuous electric current flow. No current flow and the DL collapses, and life becomes extinguished until current flow resumes, and then maybe new life-forms appear compatible with the new conditions – David Bohm’s implicate/explicate order model.


      • johnm33 says:

        Louis ‘stopping the current locally’ If venus did break out of jupiter, and jupiter was a star previously then i’m assuming an iron and heavy metal core organised into double layers electrically, but generally depleted of electrons. Venus, moving faster than earth, caught up so to speak and began to strip electrons from earth, and electro-magnetically they became a single entity for the duration of it’s passage.The cessation of spin may have generated enough energy [through translation of kinetic energy] to cause all the really heavy elements to reach some kind of critical temperarure threshold and begin to rise through now more plastic lithosphere. To add to the conjecture it’s conceivable that earth slowed in it’s orbit adding a huge further source of energy, and facillitating the movement of earth to a more distant orbit[?] If the heavier metals did indeed break out from the mantle then all the more reactive ones would by now have dissipated into life and chemistry, leaving only the unreactive hence the iridium/platinum anomoly.
        I’m also thinking that most ore lodes, kimberlite/breccia pipes, granite and olivine intrusions were created as a consequence of this process, not to mention forests flattened, cooked and covered.
        It’s not just that some saw the sun stand still high in the sky, some experienced an extended night others saw the sun rise just above the horizon and then not move, so i’m just wondering what if it was so?
        Plasma DL I assume double layer and how it’s essential for life is an area of total ignorance on my part, link?


      • John,
        Plasma DL’s and life:

        No links, just an harebrained idea of mine from observation. If you collapse the plasma DL at the Earth’s surface what might happen?

        I noticed over the years when sitting at drilling rigs whiling the time away, that it was pleasantly cool under trees but not cool under artificial shade constructions. At home here on the farm, that is quite hilly and gullied, travelling over the creeks and gullies under the tree canopies one immediately feels cold.

        The usual explanation is that its the shade made by the trees that stops the radiant heat from the sun. But not the air under the tree since that is in direct contact with the air out in the open and by conduction should have thermally equilibrated. Again a comparison of shade produced by tree and by shade cloth results in trees being cooler to stand under.

        This is inexplicable until it is realised that the root system of the tree is drawing electric telluric current and emitting that current upwards to atmosphere and hence ionosphere.

        We know the Earth’s negative electrical charge will dissipate top zero in about 7 minutes, but as it is not decreasing over time, the negative electric charge must be continually supplied externally, and it is this upward wafting current from the ground to the ionosphere that seems to generate vegetation when water is present. In deserts devoid of vegetation the upward moving current simply heats the ground and air.

        So in a sense it is not the radiant heat of the sun that is heating things up but the vertically ascending electrons passing though the resistive atmosphere that is causing heat.

        In highly vegetated regions that current is thus the energy that causes plant growth in the presence of abundant ground water. So the crustal electrons travel via the roots into the trunks, branches and are emitted from the leaves producing copious negative ions that also causes rain. Photosynthesis needs to be incorporated into this model, of course.

        Its the electrical potential difference between the ionosphere and the earth’s surface, and at depth, that creates a dynamic electric field that in which life appears. No E field and water, no vegetation, and hence no life. It seems the coupling of water and electricity allows life on a planet.

        This is a first pass, back of envelope, muse 🙂 but should give you a kernel of thought from which to work from.


  3. johnm33 says:

    Louis I recognise the phenomenon, [cool woods] and i’ll let the Plasma dl idea settle in a little.
    As I said above I came to this line of thought from a completely different direction, and know next to nothing about geology so it’s been interesting looking through your posts. For now i’ll finish off my current thoughts about permafrost and how it came about before I give my brain a rest.
    With no idea what dating of any kind can be deemed reliable just for simplicity I’m using mainstream chronology, first I think the sun travels in a plasma tube that is wrapped around something like one tube of the middle of these three images, such that it orbits it every 26k, encounters the other tube every 40k and is closest to the galactic center every 100k years. My take of the legends is that Jupiter followed us down the ‘tube’ or an adjacent one[as does sirius] and slowly caught up, though it could have been the other way round if the world flipped over. When it caught up it’s ‘drive’ was usurped by the larger sun and it was captured, maybe this was how all the gas giants arrived in the system. A long period of chaos followed until some time within mythic history ‘man’ witnessed a close encounter between Saturn and Jupiter which deposed Saturn as the ruler of heaven, driving it to a more distant orbit, and in the same encounter Venus broke out from Jupiters core, that event disturbed the equilibrium of the force aligned field . Now I have no idea what a previous or future set up would look like but agree with some others that Venus displaced Mars from an[other] inner orbit and it’s close approach to Earth also slowed us down and shifted us to a slightly larger orbit too.
    The kinetic energy of that slowdown, and the cessation of spin, is signalled by all the rocks that have ‘gravitationally spread’ [melted] heavy metals having a low specific heat became incredibly hot sufficient to vapourise some of the substances they were mixed with, and this caused vast amounts of material to fracture and explode out of the earth some from great depths. Wherever there was a lot of water things remained livable, even relatively cool, since the water could move. Where only a little water was present it too was vapourised and burst out expanding the atmosphere by a significant fraction, once Venus had passed and the spin had returned these areas would be supercooled, then there would be the mother of all hailstorms as all the vapour began to condense and fall from the top of the atmosphere.
    The celtic myths give me the impression that they built communities then divided and spread consistently for thousands of years as a stratagem for surviving repeated cataclysms, and I suspect their Druids sprang from the same source as the Brahmins. Quite possibly arriving from the north and imposing a form of Sanscrit on the ‘basque’ west ‘britons’/cymraig and on the tribes of the north sea which became dutch, icinglas[iceni]/english, and germanic languages.


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